US Citizen Went to Army Recruitment Offices in Both Moscow and Kyiv

Mathew Kyle Dubron, a US citizen, is one of the individuals whose name IStories found on the list of foreigners who went through Moscow’s recruitment center for contract military service. He told IStories he went through one in Ukraine as well, though he never actually joined either army. According to him, he was gathering information for his fiction book, “The Volunteers. A Story of the Russo-Ukraine War: Based on true stories from both sides” published in Autumn 2025. The book follows the stories of two characters: a Russian soldier who went to war to earn money, and an American who enlisted in the Ukrainian army. 

Dubron is a former military who served in the US and in Israel. He described the differences he saw between the recruiting process in Russia and Ukraine — and between the two countries at war in general.

— As a citizen of the US, why did you choose the Russian invasion of Ukraine as the subject matter of the book? 

— First, I studied history. I do think that it is the most historically important thing to happen in the 21st century. I believe it destroys the world order that was established post 1946-1947, with the UN agreeing that we don't invade countries and we solve our problems through mediation or legal means. I do understand that people have broken that, but we've generally kept to that. And I think that the breaking of that is an extremely historical event, and I wanted to write about that as a historian. 

Number two, I would say that I was in a unique position because I did serve in the Israeli military, and in the Israel military, we have a lot of Ukrainians and a lot of Russians. So I actually did know people who were on both sides. And that's where the idea of the book came in, just telling what the normal person goes through. Yes. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the criminal soldiers that they (the Russians — Ed.) have, but I am saying that there are normal people who are forced to be there and it sucks. And the Ukrainians, on their side, you have normal people who just want to go home. And I can sympathize with that level of soldiering as a soldier.

I tried to approach writing a modern book in a historical context, and then I realized that the tragedy and suffering that is going on would not be told well in a non-fiction book. I realized that I wanted to tell a more personalized story about the war and be able to relate it more to Americans.

— How did you collect the information to write the part of the book telling the russian soldier story?

— 2022 was when I came up with the idea for the book and research. But what I wanted when I wrote the book — and I said that it's based on true stories — I didn't want to just be some idiot who just made up stories, or watched a YouTube video and said, “Okay, cool. I know exactly what's going on here guys”. No. I wanted to go there.

Because I have two passports and because I have friends from both sides, I was able to go in with an Israeli passport into Russia, use the American one to get around in case that gets flagged or in trouble, and then get out with an Israel passport. 

I already had the title, “the Volunteers”. The important part is volunteering, so I went to the recruitment center to look around. So, I went for a day. 

— What did you see in the Moscow recruitment center?

It's almost like an assembly line, and my book talks about it. You go in, you sit down, you talk. You get asked one question — “why do you want to be here?” Uh, money. Oh, okay. Cool. Goodbye. Next. 

If you replaced everything there with AI, nothing would change. They don't care. There's four or five guys sitting there, and there's a line up the door of people. 

Unfortunately, when you're an American there, everyone asks you what you think. So I had to keep it very, very pro-Russian. I don't want to end up like many Americans who've been arrested, including two or three former American Marines, anything like that. I always give the party line answer.

Their physical (checkup — Ed.) is… I didn't even realize I took a physical. I just talked to somebody and walked out.

They don't really check skills and things like this. The Americans or the Ukrainians will be like, oh, you're a programmer. OK, we can put you somewhere and use your skill sets. Whereas from what I saw, it seemed like they (Russians — Ed.) really didn't care at all. They just were like: oh, a person, cool.

[When it turned out it was time to sign the contract] I just said, “Oh, I didn't know it would be today. I want to go see the beauty of Russia. See you later. I'll come back”. And they were cool with that. They have so many people there. It's not even a concern for them.

Me being an American, they would never stop me from leaving. I just knew that. I don't think they'd cause an international incident this week. So I'll be OK.

I stayed for a little bit longer to arrange the interview. I really wanted to interview someone who was on the front. So my friend, who I met through my Israeli contacts, was able to set up the meeting with someone who was there (Dubron opted not to reveal the interviewee's name — Ed.)

Also I was able to arrange the interview with a person who lost a very close family member. And so I was able to ask them, why did they join? Were they some person who wants the Russian Empire back? Are they a person who is patriotic? Are they a person who was avoiding criminal (responsibility — Ed.)? And then they said, money. And that's where the character of my book came, with the money (as a motivation — Ed.)

— Why did you decide to go to the recruitment center if you had no intention to fight? 

I wanted to get something so that I could say “this is true”. I didn't want to just say that, I wanted to use some primary sources, going back to my historical training. I wanted to either be my primary source or talk to someone who was there. 

And the gentleman who I talked to, who was on the front, did not join through a recruiting center. He was a member of one of the, I would say PMCs, and then he ended up in the army when they switched over. 

— What surprised you the most in the Russian recruiting center? 

I was very surprised to see that it was a one stop shop. You just walk in and then that day they were leaving. I don't know if they do background checks. This is crazy! 

I served in the IDF. There is rubber stamping that happens where it's like, “Yeah, he's good, we swear”. But it's at least even then they go through the pretense. 

Even in what the Russians call elite units, which is VDV and the Morskaya Pekhota, they don't get that much training. From a direct source from someone who was there, their training was four to six weeks. (Russian BBC Service has also reported that the paratrooper training during the war has been taking just a couple of weeks — meanwhile before the war it would take 6 to 12 months to do the just basic training — Ed.).

In an elite unit in Israel you'd be training for 8 to 12 months before you're even allowed to take the training wheels off and go for a walk, whereas in the American military the fastest pipeline for a special operations soldier is still a year. 

But it may have changed again, it's been two years. But in 2024, they were doing a counter-offensive, so it must have been pretty manpower-heavy comparatively.

— Why do some foreigners — Americans included — decide to go to war on Russia’s side? 

— That's, actually — I wouldn't say “common — but it's a thing. Number one is Russian women, most likely, is where they go. Guys like girls, and that's a story as old as time. 

Number two, I would say, in their case, it would be... I can't speak for everyone else, but I would say veterans would probably feel a little betrayed after the collapse of Afghanistan and things like that. And they probably feel betrayed that certain social ideologies were being pushed in the US military.

And Russia claims to be this bastion of strong Christian nation, but what they portray themselves as and what they really are is a different world. And they're sending their guys to go die on the front when they have a huge demographic crisis. But I would say that this right-wing Christian nation ideology attracts a lot of, I would say, very disenfranchised Americans and Westerners. 

And I would say, people still, especially in the West, associate Russia with communism, being the successor state of the Soviet Union. So, it could attract the left-wing, too. 

— In your book, another part of the story is that of an American fighting for Ukraine. How did you collect the information for this part?

— After a month in Russia, I went back to the United States. I — again through contacts — arranged meetings in Ukraine. I went to Lviv and Kyiv. 

I went to the recruiting place in Kyiv in the old city hall. They gave me the number for the International Legion over regular brigades, as I am an American. 

What I noticed in Ukraine is that they care a lot more about skills. The difference is I saw the Ukrainians taking their time a little more with recruits. When I was there, they were talking to them, which is something that I know is shocking compared to the Russian side of the house, but they wanted to know a little bit more about you. Maybe, I can't say for certain, to place you where you may be the best for the Ukrainian military.

I would also say that the Ukrainian (recruiting office — Ed.) was a lot more upbeat. The Russian office looked like it was quite possibly the most depressing place I've ever been, and that includes a morgue. Everyone there was kind of in a bad mood.

— What else is different about the recruiting process in the two countries?

 From what I saw: (in Ukraine — Ed.) the people who joined got to choose. If you join and want to go to the 12th assault brigade or something like that, “Okay, cool. We're gonna send you there”. Oh, 95th air mobile. “Okay, cool”. 

I also feel that the Ukrainian one takes more time. It took four to six weeks for the Americans I interviewed, and they were actually angry about it. I met an American who came over and was ready to go fight for Ukraine. He walks in. They're like, “we'll call you”. And he never got a call for six weeks. He said he almost lost all his money.

Ukraine most likely wants to make sure the volunteer is not wanted by Interpol or something like this. (The official website of the International Legion for the Defence of Ukraine states that an application is reviewed by the Legion and the corresponding unit for 4 to 6 weeks — Ed.)

— How would you describe the mood in the two countries? 

They were very different.

The mood in Moscow was very serious (as of the beginning of 2024 — Ed.). There's propaganda posters everywhere for what they call a special military operation. They never use the term (war — Ed.), ever. I find it hilarious that you'll be talking to someone there and you'll like, “war”, and they'll be like, no, “call it whatever you want”. What do you want to call it, dude? It's a war. 

In Kyiv, people were still friendly. I accidentally walked into someone's home instead of a cafe and was like, I'm so sorry, I'm walking out. And they're like, “No no no, stay for tea!”.

And I would say that the narratives portrayed in the West on both sides are incorrect, from what I saw.

There was this narrative that “Ukraine is breaking”, but I didn't see that in 2024. I saw a very determined group of people. And that's impressive. The narrative also is that “Russia is breaking” and I don't see that either. In Russia, I just see people who are tired. And I'd say they are also tired in Kyiv, but there's hope. In Russia, it's just tiredness. I would say that's the big difference. 

— What's the motivation difference between the volunteers fighting for Russia and Ukraine you wrote about in the book?

Russians’ motivations are generally money. And unfortunately, from the start of the war, I think the true believers (among the volunteers — Ed.) on both sides are mostly gone — unfortunately, because they have fought bravely. Ukrainians are still getting high quality foreign volunteers, but the foreign volunteers don't come for money on the Ukrainian side. They come for their friends already there. They come because they want to help. They come because they're professionals and they say, “I believe in this. This is a true fight where I get to help”. And that's what I wrote about. 

But I wasn't trying to make the Russians characters. I wasn't trying to make Ukrainian characters. I was trying to make them as real as possible. 

The American was there for ideals. When people died, it was a little more hurtful, that kind of impact. The Russian was forced there for money. 

But you have to remember they are people. The second you start degrading your enemy as a caricature, or the second you start degrading your enemy as just evil, without understanding, you're not going to do well.

I think telling it from a humanistic perspective is able to, again, give that quality to the average Ukrainian soldier. If you keep saying, oh, these Russian soldiers suck, I think that takes away from some of the Ukrainian soldiers who've been fighting these guys for four years. When the Russians make gains, what does that say about you guys? That's really not fair. That's wrong. So you need to say, OK, yes, your average soldier quality goes to Ukraine. But the Russians still have combat-capable, decent units that are pushing, and actually sometimes getting repulsed (by Ukrainians — Ed.), which is beyond impressive for someone who's been fighting. 

I'm not trying to say anything other than war is hell, it sucks that people are there. It's just all of it is a tragedy on a level that is incomprehensible.

My family is a military family and I would say the majority of them are pretty anti-war overall. Going to wars, you have to brainwash 18 year old kids. “Go have fun”. But that's because you're drilled in your head. 

You can have guys who fought in a lot of elite units: Israel, America, Ukraine. And they did all the “cool things”, and they come back, and you ask them — “was it worth not seeing your family?” — and they will almost always say “no.”